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Presenting The "Seduction Masters Interview Series"

4.13.2006

posted by Donovan at 1:51 PM

The Seduction Masters Interview Series

I'll be producing a series of interviews with the dating experts of the world presented here at the Attraction Chronicles.

The interviews will be fairly indepth, helping the reader to gain insight into how these masters got to where they are today. Tips, techniques and other thoughts they have on the subject of seduction and pickup will be relayed in a question and answer format.

These will be kick ass. We should be able to learn valuable lessons to shorten our personal learning curves.

The first of the interviews will be the infamous 'Thundercat' who was mentioned in "The Game", has written his own seduction book. I've also just completed an interview with Neil Strauss, along with other instructors in the various disciplines.

The Seduction Masters Interviews So Far

Now is a choice moment to subscribe to the RSS feed from the left-hand column so you don't miss out on some of the exclusives coming up.

Donovan

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posted by Donovan at 1:51 PM Dating Advice for Men

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How To Talk To Women On The Phone

posted by Donovan at 1:13 PM

Wayne Elise
Wayne Elise's (Juggler) Phone Guidelines

Esquire Magazine Article by Neil Strauss
Below is a heavily expanded article on the same topic Juggler wrote for Esquire magazine.


This will help some guys who have difficulties when they talk to women on the telephone. People with very different styles from mine may not consider this useful, but for most this should help.

1. No matter who answers the phone announce who you are, "Hi this is Juggler. Is Katie there?"

This shows you are proud and confident to be you and it establishes some rapport with a housemate or parent which can be used later.

(By the way meeting a girl with her parents is a very good situation. I use my parents routine which many times has gotten the folks pushing their daughter into my arms)

2. If Katie is not there, chat up the person on the phone. "So what's your name? I'm not coming on to you or anything, as far as I know you could have three eyes and green skin but has anyone ever said you have a real sweet phone voice?" etc..

If this person asks to take a message after you ask for Katie, ignore it and ask who they are and begin to charm them.

Do not be in a hurry. This shows you feel you are not worthy of a person's time and shows a lack of confidence. Also, when you slow down, your delivery will improve with clarity and nuances in your voice.

I do not subscribe to the belief that you need to be the first to end the conversation. As long as you are being charming do not be quick to let this person go. Having said that, try to keep it to about five minutes with this person and do not feel bad if they have to cut you off. Many ASF people read way too much into what is alpha, supplication and all that. If you are being interesting it doesn't matter. On the other hand, if you have run out of material end the conversation.

I can not over-emphasize the worth of getting a person who shares her house to like you over the phone. It will make your life much easier.


2b. Try getting off the telephone without leaving a message. The best way is to just say something like, "Pleasure chatting with you XXXXX. Bye." If she asks to take a message at this point just say, "Thanks but no message."

Of course Katie will hear you called but there will be a little mystery.

3. Okay, you get Katie on the phone.

  • Do not ask her if she is busy.
  • Do not ask her what she is doing.
  • Do not remind her where she met you.
  • Do not believe you need to be the first to end the conversation. That will make you rush and ruin your rap.
  • Talk slowly and confidently.

"Hi Katie. This is Juggler. You would not believe what my niece did yesterday."

Or "Remember how we were talking about the sexiest food and you said watermelon. Well I fed some watermelon to my cat and he is looking at me in the strangest way..."

Do not expect a 50-50 conversation. At least not at first. You will have to give it alot of momentum. Go right into material. (I define material as a funny story, patterns, an addendum to the conversation you had when you met the girl - whatever works for you.)

4. Keep the charm flowing and return her to the fun, sexy mood you left her in. Slow down your delivery and put sensualness in your voice. DO NOT think about the close. Work to re-attract her.

5. After fifteen minutes or so, the close should be easy. Almost an afterthought. Just talk about it as if it is already a done fact - hardly worth mentioning. Casual like, "Let's get together this week." Then shut up.

She will then recite her schedule and let you know where her free-times are. Pick out a day and time which will work for you. I don't want to make this post so long by typing up the details of why it is important for you to hear her schedule first or let her suggest times first. If someone really wants the breakdown on this let me know and I will post.

Some guys may think accommodating her schedule is supplicant. Maybe. Heck if I know. What is alpha, what's not alpha... Guys make themselves crazy thinking about that stuff. I just know my flaking is virtually nil.

6. If she claims to be too busy to get together, either act like you didn't even hear it, go back into material and then try to re-close with different language or try to do something immediately, "Let's go for ice-cream. I can pick you up in ten minutes."

If that still doesn't work just say, "Nice chatting with you." and let her go. Maybe repeat the process in a couple weeks or call other girls.

7. In practice, if you put her in the right mood you will have very little problem arranging a meet. Half the time the girls will bring up a meet. Sometimes I'll just keep talking material and try not to arrange a meet. She brings it up a meet and I will just keep talking material. I like to do seemingly counter-productive stuff like that just to wallow in how effective good material is.

Always work on her mood. As an example, a couple weeks ago, I called this girl to re-confirm our meet. She had cancelled on me before. From the tone of her first few words I knew she was planning on canceling on me again. But I never gave her the chance. Went right into good material. Steam rolled her into a mood of laughing and fun. Her mind was then changed to, "This guy is making me laugh. I guess I'll give him a shot." I re-confirmed in a very casual way.
We met up that night and she ended up sleeping over. I have since lost her. Too bad she was really a sweet girl. But that is another post.

One last word. In order to work the phone well, you must have confidence in your verbal abilities. Work on your tone. Work on you speed. Work on your material. Practice steamrolling your friends into a good mood.

-Juggler

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posted by Donovan at 1:13 PM Dating Advice for Men

7 Comments:

Anonymous Anonymous said...

It has been my experince that this routine rarely works on girls not named "Katie".

-Westfall

7:45 AM, August 31, 2006  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

It's great that human communication has been broken down into "rules". But notice, running out of material is the worst thing that possibly can happen. The girl on the phone, or anywhere else, will never get to know the real guy, who doesn't practice lines but think and act for himself. A guy who can't talk to a woman in normal ways has to think of a way to quickly end the conversation when he's running out of material. If a guy is looking for a seroius relationship, he will later on have trouble with the girls' twisting mind as he opens himself. It's pathetic to use a guide to get in touch with people. The real tool is to have reason for the confidence about oneself.

6:02 AM, January 06, 2007  
Blogger Ryan said...

Well, I completely agree. And as to the post above, I half agree. But the thing is, you can't teach someone to be confident in themselves, but you can even train a monkey to communicate.

12:15 AM, April 14, 2007  
Anonymous Xandiro said...

I would be stunned if anyone tried to maintain a lasting relationship based on PUA rules. That is of course, unless the girl was completely stupid.

10:26 AM, June 03, 2007  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

i think you guys (above comments) are getting this wrong. the point of material, imho, is not about being someone else. everyone has material. think about yourself. there's at least 3 good stories, quirky observations or stupid jokes you tell people all the time. you use them with new friends, you use them with co-workers, you use them at the dentist's office. that's material. does that make you a fake person?

and re: maintaining relationships with PUA rules... that's not what being a PUA is about. the PU means PickUp, so it's about hooking and presenting yourself to a girl you are interested in in the best light. from then on, it's all you.

8:30 AM, October 19, 2007  
Anonymous Allblack said...

I cant remember the last time I read an online comment that broke what PUA means to me so simply. Good to see constructive insight still exists.

Also what is so wrong with having rules or guidelines? They underpin the framework needed to internalise game.

11:05 PM, December 12, 2007  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Nice... I like the post... Practice makes perfect I guess.

7:39 PM, February 03, 2008  

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Online Profile Photo Tips

4.11.2006

posted by Donovan at 10:00 PM

Look at the bottom for a pickup related profile photo tip.

It's no secret that including a photo with your online profile will get you many more winks and emails. But what's the secret to taking and selecting a great photo that captures your personality and helps you stand out from the crowd? Experts divulge their tried-and-true techniques for taking and posting your best personal pics.

Bad:


Good:


Light up my life - not your forehead.

"Use an external light source whenever possible - please, please realize how bad an on-camera flash is going to make you look," begs Anthony Citrano, a New York-based photographer. "The best kind of light is soft, diffused light. Try bright indirect sunlight (afternoon light through a curtain is one excellent, no-cost example.) Avoid over-exposed, dark or out-of-focus pictures that make it hard to see the real you.

Eyes are the window to the soul - and the key to an authentic shot.

Obscuring your eyes not only hides an important feature, but it can send signals of untrustworthiness. "A direct gaze is important in real life and in pictures," says Maury Faggart, a portrait photographer in Charlotte, NC. "Eye contact does a whole lot for you, so be sure to look directly into the camera." Even if you're facing slightly away from the camera, use only snaps that have you looking at the lens. "And don't wear sunglasses or hats that hide your eyes," advises Faggart.

Dress to impress.

Clothes make the man (and the woman), so wear an outfit that expresses your personality and fits properly. Formal guy? Wear a suit. Outdoors girl? Sport your favorite fleece pullover. "Choose comfortable clothes in a color or colors that look good on you," advises Ginny Morey, a Seattle-based writer and photographer. "If you feel good, you're more likely to look good." High-contrast colors can make you stand out more on an online dating site, so go ahead and wear black and white if that suits you - just don't let the colors be too intense and overwhelm you (think purple and yellow).

Get ready for your close-up.

How you position yourself and your camera makes a huge difference. "If you're short, the shot should originate from slightly below waist level," Citrano counsels. "Stand or sit up straight. You'll look narrower if you angle your arms sharply away from your body and put your hands on your hips. For a masculine shot, shoot from slightly below the waist. For a feminine shot, shoot from slightly above. Chest up and out, tummy in. Roll your shoulders back a little. Elongate your neck a touch."

Improving on nature.

If you can work with the photos digitally a bit, there's nothing wrong with a little tweaking. "Finesse the shots a bit, but not to the point of airbrushing out all flaws and wrinkles,"
Morey notes. "Bump up the color saturation or increase brightness or contrast to make the photo itself more attractive and eye-catching." But, that said, do be sure to post a current photo that presents the most attractive you possible. Don't do anything to present an unrecognizable version of yourself, because that will just make you appear dishonest when you meet a suitor in person. Following these tips will help you take and post the most accurate and flattering photos - and increase your chances of finding love online.

These tips remind me of one of the DVD's on the Meeting Women Online program. David went through some similar (although more indepth) ways to make your profile stand out, and become unique. If online dating isn't you're thing, you should seriously consider making it a PART of you're overall pickup game.

Tip: Always try to have hot women with you in photos, or out in social environments. This helps to create SOCIAL PROOF. Which is more important than the way you look. I'll be posting more information on SOCIAL PROOF, and what it does, why it's soooo important to your game very soon.

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posted by Donovan at 10:00 PM Dating Advice for Men

3 Comments:

Anonymous Anonymous said...

haha her name was Maury Faggart.

I am so easily please

Love the blog, keep it up :O)

Tallerguy UK

4:25 AM, April 12, 2006  
Blogger cadmus said...

is that the same guy in both pics

11:30 AM, June 12, 2006  
Blogger Donovan said...

nope

11:32 AM, June 12, 2006  

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Neil Strauss Gives Tour Of Project Hollywood (Video)

posted by Donovan at 4:33 PM

Neil on Swedish TV giving a brief overview of The Game, and also shows us inside Project Hollywood.

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posted by Donovan at 4:33 PM Dating Advice for Men

8 Comments:

Anonymous Rocky said...

Does anyone know how we can dowload these videos for furture referance and so on?

12:31 PM, April 14, 2006  
Blogger Dooz said...

http://www.youtube.com/v/LEURcCAgJ_g

That's the best I can do, as YouTube seems to turn all of their videos into swf files, and I really don't know enough about coding or anything of the sort to figure out where the data of the actual video is stored.

8:33 PM, June 13, 2006  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

If you use Mozilla Firefox browser , there is a plugin that will allow you to download videos from sites like Youtube,myspace,google-video etc.
Its called "VideoDownloader".
Files are encoded in .swf and .flv formats but can be converted to regular video formats using TotalVideoConverter.

9:44 AM, September 17, 2006  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

It seems that the video of Project Hollywood has been taken down!?
Can anyone help me find another source of this video? I would really like to see it.

7:50 AM, October 23, 2006  
Anonymous Ex-ki said...

Here is a link to the file on MEGAUPLOAD

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=LOHQELGX

1:57 PM, October 24, 2006  
Blogger Donovan said...

It will be reappearing on this page momentarily. I've uploaded it to youtube

2:57 PM, October 24, 2006  
Anonymous Bob Dylan said...

Usually after you load up a file on YouTube, it is saved as an .flv file in your "Temporary Internet Files" folder.

Otherwise just paste the URL into http://javimoya.com/blog/youtube_en.

10:59 AM, November 11, 2006  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Oh! And you'll also need an FLV player to actually WATCH THE VIDEO!

There are a few, I know of media player classic and mplayer.

11:01 AM, November 11, 2006  

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Mystery Method (5): Comfort

4.10.2006

posted by Donovan at 12:02 PM

UPDATE! Do you want to get Mystery to teach you every step of the way? Check out hisDVD Home Course.

ATTRACT 1:
Opening
ATTRACT 2:
Female-to-male attract phase (often called "attracting")
ATTRACT 3:
Male-to-female attract phase (or "qualifying")
COMFORT 1:
Connection
COMFORT 3:
Intimacy
SEDUCTION 2:
Last-minute Resistance

If you remember from OAP 4, you enter the Comfort phases once she is attracted to you (A2) and you have convinced her that you are interested in her for reasons she thinks are valid (A3).

In other words:
You enter Comfort as soon as you both accept that you are attracted to each other.
You leave Comfort (and go into Seduction) as soon as you escalate to sexual touching.

Mystery MethodComfort is the missing ingredient that allows you to convert mutual attraction into sex. Comfort changes her from "I want him but I don't know him well enough" into "I want him".

Sounds easy, doesn't it? By itself, it is. Most men can make a woman feel comfortable with them if they're not trying to have sex. (Sex comes in the Seduction phase, so don't worry about sex for anything in the Comfort phases). However, you have three things working against you:
  1. You never know how much comfort is enough. Not enough comfort before you shift into Seduction, and you're a horny loser. Too much comfort before you make a move, and you're a pussy. This used to be a big trap for guys, but Mystery has a secret here, that we'll share with you in a minute.
  2. You can't focus only on comfort. If you spend all of your effort making her feel so comfortable and safe around you, and none maintaining the tension and intrigue that you created in the Attraction phases, then she'll get bored and you'll lose her. On the other hand, rocking the tension too high in comfort will feel awkward and out place, and also destroy any comfort you've built up.
  3. You have to escalate kino (touching). This is important preparation for Seduction. In the Seduction phases, you will obviously need to be touching her in an increasingly sexual way. Maybe you figure that that's Seduction, and you don't have to worry about it while in Comfort, right? Wrong. It's hard enough in Seduction to shift from non-sexual touching to sexual touching. It's infinitely harder in Seduction to shift from no touching at all to sexual touching. You're setting yourself up for failure in Seduction if you don't do the groundwork in Comfort.

So, how do we build comfort and defeat these obstacles?

Calibrate Timing with Mystery's 7-hour rule: This is the secret we promised you that destroys the #1 obstacle in the last section. One of Mystery's major breakthroughs is in learning that there is a 4-10 window during which a sexual relationship can begin. This means that, on a cold approach (where it's someone you meet at a coffee shop as opposed to your sister's best friend), you generally need between 4 and 10 hours of interacting with her before sex can occur. This can be over multiple days (you spend an hour with her when you first meet her, and then at least three hours with her the next day . . . that may be enough). But don't lose sight of the clock. Before 4 hours, she likely won't be "ready" and you'll run into insurmountable last-minute resistance in Seduction. After 10 hours, and it will feel awkward and creepy to her, since you didn't have the balls to make a move when you had the chance, and, anyway, by now she's gotten so used to your non-sexual presence that all of the attraction/sexual tension has dissipated. The 4-10 principle (average around 7) is crucial -- though there are exceptions, you'll be amazed at how often it applies.

You get points for just being there: You build comfort with a woman by being in situations with her where you could theoretically try to escalate sexually with her, but don't. If she can sit on your couch without you being all over her, that will build comfort. If you can grind with her on the dance floor without grabbing her ass, that builds comfort. Until you get to 4-10 hours of course!

Speed things up with multiple venues: Boy takes "Girl A" to the park. They have a picnic and hang out 6 hours. Boy takes "Girl B" window shopping, then they grab a bite, then they go to bookstore, then they have a drink, all over a 6 hour period. Which girl is more likely to be "ready"? Girl B. She has seen herself in more situations with the guy, and therefore feels she knows him better.

Make YOURSELF her source of comfort: Imagine that a girl invites you to a party. It turns out that she knows everyone and you know no one. She leaves for a few minutes. You awkwardly meet her friends and try to make a good impression, but it's still stressful, not knowing anyone. Then she comes back, and you're relieved. Then she goes and you're uncomfortable. Etc., etc. If you've been following along, you can see how useful this is in reverse. Bring her to places where you are the center of attention. Make her work to win your attention. By working to win your attention, by being happier when you're around then when you're not, by trying to make a good impression on your friends, she will be following behavior patterns that she is used to following when she is interested in someone. Making her follow them with you solidifies her attraction to you while building comfort.

Be genuinely interested in her. Remember, she won you over in A3: Qualification. You don't need to be so dismissive anymore. Now that you're in Comfort, it is expected, normal, and attractive for you to ask her personal questions about herself. On the other hand . . .
Don't stop being a challenge. Keep the romantic/sexual tension going during the comfort phase. At appropriate times, you should still tease her, disagree with her, etc. Once there is no tension, the interaction becomes boring for a girl.

The comfort game requires a lot of subtly and mental dexterity. There's a lot we couldn't put in here (most important: 1) the effect of the three different phases of Comfort; 2) How to escalate kino, which is really tricky . . . we needed to put over 15 minutes of kino escalation tactics on disk 3 of the Mystery Method DVD set). But this will get you started.

Remember -- do the math. Comfort takes about 6 hours (with a half-hour for Attraction and a half-hour for Seduction). That's a long time. Slow it down. The high-energy flair in Attraction isn't really useful here. To some extent, Comfort is where you "be yourself" -- or at least, be who you want to be -- and let her learn about you, while you do the same with her.

If this isn't easy, don't worry. Like the other phases, it needs practice and intuition.

For complete coverage of everything the Mystery Method can offer, download the Magic Bullets ebook.

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posted by Donovan at 12:02 PM Dating Advice for Men

1 Comments:

Blogger Dries said...

Donovan,
I tried the mistery method on a social network website where I opended a conversation on a normal way, by writing an interesting comment on one of her pictures.
*She complemented me on it.
I wrote her a PM: I have a feeling we can't make a great couple because our characters are the same.
*She wrote me I was naive,..
so i wrote her I'm not, Im pretty smart. And I gave her a link to an IQ test and told her that I guessed she will have the same as me.
*she replied that she comes from a smart family with a high average IQ
So I wrote: wow, thats great, I respect smart people who do something usefull with their lives, but I'm afraight I'm a bit out of your league. So I'll leave you be and wish you the best of luck with your live.
*Today she wrote me back: She don't puts people into classes and she was sorry if she gave me that impression. She is just sick of men for the moment. That is why she acts so blut sometimes.
-----------------
all the above happened in 6 days
-----------------
I see your stuff does work on hot girls, but I don't know what I should do next:
--Should I ask her to meet me (we both have exams this month, so she might use it as an excuse not to go out right now) and try to get to the comfort level.
--Or try to get to the comfort level via the internet Emailing her genuine intresting questions-(no kino possible)
--Or go trough another loop of Atract3:Bait, hook, reel, release..

Sorry for my bad English (I'm dutch) Please reply or send me trough to someone who has the same knowledge you have, who can awnser my question.

8:44 AM, May 29, 2008  

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Teaching Men The Art of Flirting

posted by Donovan at 10:36 AM

by Christina Shovlin 2005.

Guys who find themselves unlucky in love have a new opportunity to learn how to meet and attract women. Charisma Sciences (Charisma Arts), hosted by Wayne Elise, who also goes by the nickname "Juggler," is out to teach men how to approach women and find a date.

Similar to the new movie "Hitch," in which Will Smith plays a dating coach, Wayne goes with clients to meet women.

"The seminars are in a classroom setting," Charisma Sciences (Charisma Arts) business manager John Henson said. "While in workshops, guys go out with Wayne and approach women, and afterwards Wayne critiques them. We offer workshops, seminars, and even boot camp. Most guys don't come here wanting a girlfriend, they just want to have the ability to get a girlfriend if they wanted to. You want to be in a relationship because you want to be in it, not because you need to be in it."

Many men may look to the program as a way to overcome shyness, or simply to enhance one's overall social skills.

"I know a few guys, myself included, that are shy," FSU freshman Eugene Holley said. "I don't know how to approach females. I think it's a good idea."

Henson emphasized that most of the Charisma Sciences (Charisma Arts) clients are not psychologically handicapped; they're simply really shy.

According to Henson, the unique idea for this company started because there is a community of guys on the Internet who want to know how to meet and seduce women. A major belief of the company is that a person can't be good with women if they aren't good with people.

"You need to see everyone as a friend first," Henson said. "Our theory is that if you become more confident and have a good flow of conversation, you'll be able to meet women. It's about the approach and getting over the fear of talking to each other."

Some may wonder how a company such as Charisma Sciences (Charisma Arts) came to be.

"There is a demand for it, so that's why it exists," FSU sophomore Teddy Wohlford said. "I wouldn't use it personally because I don't have a problem with it, but if I find myself struggling, I would. For guys who (are) socially awkward, and trying to date, it could help."

There is a growing demand for this service.

"The market is about to explode," Henson said. "The 'Hitch' movie is coming out and Neil Strauss of Rolling Stone is releasing a book called "The Game." There are people from all over the world interested in this. In March, we're going to Australia."

Clients range in age from 18 to about 42, but some are older. A personal workshop costs $700, while a workshop with two people costs $600. The boot camp, however, costs $1600 for the weekend.

"It's not trickery, it teaches basic flirty language," Henson said. "Clients who come usually find this to be a long-term problem. It's not psychological. They find themselves being clingy in relationships and afraid to go out (to meet new people) by themselves. They've gotten shot down before. Some guys by their early 20s who aren't popular or successful with women realize that they need to get this part of their life settled."

Some women have expressed concern over the intentions of the company.

"I think it's kind of fake and insincere," FSU sophomore Melissa Wallace said. "It's kind of cheesy. It's sweet that he's making the effort, but it means more if it comes from his own head."

Others contend that what doesn't come naturally shouldn't come at all.

"If you don't know how to approach them on your own then you shouldn't be approaching them," FSU junior Keondra Mincy said. "It's unnecessary. Use your own tactics. If they don't appreciate you, then that's not a person you should be dating."

So far the Juggler does not have a program set up for women to meet men, but it is a future possibility. The company is also releasing DVD's that will help men learn how to flirt.

"It's about learning how to meet and attract women. There is a psychological element to it," Henson said.

The company can be contacted online at Charisma Arts.

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posted by Donovan at 10:36 AM Dating Advice for Men

5 Comments:

Anonymous Anonymous said...

"I think it's kind of fake and insincere," FSU sophomore Melissa Wallace said. "It's kind of cheesy. It's sweet that he's making the effort, but it means more if it comes from his own head."

"If you don't know how to approach them on your own then you shouldn't be approaching them," FSU junior Keondra Mincy said. "It's unnecessary. Use your own tactics. If they don't appreciate you, then that's not a person you should be dating."

This is exactly the kind of attitude that is one of the biggest reasons why 99% of men struggle with limiting beliefs when it comes to dating. When you have women saying things like the above two quotes, they're basically communicating:

1. If you don't somehow magically know what to do since birth, then you're a loser.

2. You will eventually meet a woman (unattractive consolation prize with boring personality) that will give attention to losers like you who don't know what to do.

It's truly unfortunate.

5:04 PM, April 10, 2006  
Blogger and brains too said...

No one knows magically from birth how to be attractive and flirty. Men growing up with the benefit of sisters have a lot more insight into what girls like and vice versa for women with brothers. Initial attraction is not an exact science. Being flirty and confident can be instinctive or learned. For a naturally shy person, this program may be the way to go. Something like this doesn't change the makeup of your true personality. Your true self will always shine through, but first the guy has to get over the hurdle of saying Hello to the girl.

I don't know any women that like shy men. Whether a woman is plain or pretty, ditsy or brainy, young or old - she wants to 'KNOW' a guy is interested, not wonder. If the shy ones never get out of the starting gate how will you ever find out if there was something there or not? Meanwhile the confident ones always get the girl. Nothing wrong with leveling the playing field a little bit. One shy guy took three months of borderline stalking to get up the nerve to introduce himself and ask me for my number. Let's just say that I was VERY VERY happy that he did. My only complaint: I wish he had been less shy and asked me out sooner.

9:32 AM, April 12, 2006  
Blogger Donovan said...

Great points, it brings up an important point that the majority of culture seems to miss - is that social skills aren't natural, they're learnt.

10:38 AM, April 12, 2006  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I just can't believe that in this day and age of society when many women, if not the majority, are very strong and independent etc... that they still do not have to shoulder this burden. Its long past due that women also be tasked by society to approach men as well. They have it way too easy with regard to this little facet of dating. In the Metro area where I live and work, most to all of the women are powerful, independent, social, and aggressive. They have to be. But they are in turn extremely intimadating to approach, esp. by shy males, who could have been very good 'catches'. Women enjoy this luxury of always being the one to be approached far too much these days. And yes ladies, its a luxury. I don't care what you say.

Its high time that society begin to recognize that women too can/must make an effort to ask men out more often. The one reference in a previous response of the fact that 99% of men these days struggle with how to date, is unacceptable in this day and age. Actually women should also be struggling with how to ask men out. Maybe women do struggle with the concept, but they're not expected by society to do so and so they have an out. I know women give off signals to be approached etc., but its not the same. Putting your integrity on the line and doing the actual approaching is entirely different and far more extreme.

I'm sorry and not to repeat myself but I'm just amazed that society still dictates that men must be the only ones to chance being slayed in the dating arena while women can just sit back and have the luxury of being approached and also, to do the slaying. No Fair! Wow, I'd love to be approached for a change. Its never happened. Anyway, and don't get me wrong, I love you ladies immensely. You are far better than we males in almost every way. But you could try a bit harder collectively, at making first moves. Trust me in that guys (at least most of us) would totally love it !!!

2:36 PM, August 15, 2006  
Blogger Donovan said...

Thankyou for contributing.

I think you're frame might be wrong, or you're looking at it the wrong way.

Perhaps, women are giving you indicators to approach them but subtly. This is how women do it, and it won't change anytime soon. Unforuntely. :(

3:20 PM, August 15, 2006  

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Meet Pickup101

4.09.2006

posted by Donovan at 2:10 PM

You get some dodgy seduction workshops out there. Pickup 101 by Sensei seems more hands on, and successful than most. An article about inside the Project San Francisco mansion...

With sweaty palms and over-heightened nerves, Brandon Jones* musters up every ounce of courage to walk over to the two brunettes nursing overpriced drinks at the MatrixFillmore in the Marina. He sports the generic male going-out uniform: button-up striped long-sleeved shirt and faded jeans. But as he opens his mouth to spout an equally generic line, a case of verbal diarrhea ruins any hope he has of impressing these women. Just another night as an average frustrated chump.

Jones isn't bad looking, doesn't have atrocious body odor or hold the title for world's worst breath. He's just a normal guy who's getting overlooked by girls he would like to get busy with. But being charismatic just doesn't come easy for Jones. Talking and flirting with women is uncomfortable for him, so he simply tries to avoid it all together.

Unwilling to face more rejection or make any more fruitless attempts to meet someone, Jones decides to take the plunge. He forks over $1,500 to learn how to become more "attractive" so that maybe the other side of his bed and that extra toothbrush he keeps around just in case will get some much needed use. He turns over his life for the next three days to the Master Pick-Up Artists (MPUAs) who will be working overtime to mold him into a suave Bond-type guy women fawn over.

In nearly every major city in the world, hidden beneath the eyes of the social norm, is an underground seduction lair. This is not fiction pulled off the pages of Neil Strauss' exposé of the secret society of pick-up artists, "The Game." These pick-up artist havens, called projects, are currently in New York, Las Vegas, London and Sydney. And amongst the plethora of restaurants and bustling stores in Chinatown is Project San Francisco, composed of seven pick-up artists living together and making their own unique contributions to the pick-up community.

The current pick-up community may have its beginnings with the literary success of the 1992 Ross Jefferies’ cult hit “How to Get the Women You Desire Into Bed." But it is now in full-fledged climax with Strauss’ book and making big media waves on The New York Times' Best Sellers list. But the MPUAs are striking while the community is hot, making some serious cash by teaching tricks of the pick-up trade to the dating incompetent through books, videos and traveling workshops.

Lance Mason, 35, started his company PickUp 101 out of Project San Francisco about two years ago, and he says it's been growing like crazy. He offers bootcamp workshops, booked months ahead of time, to teach men dating skills. Word of mouth has made him more sought after than his teacher and master of The Game, Mystery.

"I love and respect Mystery and learned a lot from him," Mason says of the several years he spent learning from him. According to his students, Mason has mastered The Game. He takes it to a whole new level and teaches the tricks like no one else. His successful teaching has branded him The Game name Sensei.

"What makes Sensei different from the others, like Mystery or Style (Neil Strauss), is that he is a real teacher," says friend and fellow pick-up artist Craig Calvert, who helped bring Mason into The Game.

Within the walls of Project San Francisco's eight-room mansion, complete with a 2,000-square-foot dance floor and stripper pole smudged with prints from who knows what body parts, the most devastatingly effective techniques to mesmerize the pants off women will be traded to those willing to hand over the cash.

Twelve wannabes settle into their places on black leather couches with their notebooks and pens in hand and watch in awe as Mason and three other instructors teach them the mysterious ways of courting women successfully. Divorcees, young single guys and professional businessmen from as far away as Australia are in attendance. Some of them are just looking to get laid, while others are searching for long-term, meaningful relationships.

The weekend is packed full of lectures followed by hours of actual practice of techniques targeted at undoing bad habits and forming new confidence levels. An entire three days are devoted to the first few minutes of meeting a woman, because, according to Mason, if you don't attract a girl within the first three minutes, you've already lost her.

Each miniscule step of approaching a woman is thoroughly dissected. Even the simplest things, like how to stand and the placement of the foot, can take up hours of lecture time and practice. "I call this the Feng Shui of pick-up," says instructor Grant on confidence and body language.

They provide style consultations aimed at helping surface level game, physical appearance, by picking apart wardrobes and making suggestions for improvement. A good pair of shoes and high quality jeans are where it's at. "Women spend a lot of money on expensive jeans and they like guys who do the same," Mason says.

Conversation is a big portion of the workshop, where massive amounts of time are spent developing their routine stack - opening lines, stories and playful teasing (called banter). Banter is a "verbal way of pulling a girl's pigtails on the playground," says seasoned pick-up artist Sean Messenger, 34. "The best way to approach a woman is that you can show her that you are fun."

Students actually go out into the field to practice the new skills they've acquired during the day. Bars in the Marina and SoMa become classrooms at night where they observe their masters in action. "I've never seen someone be so good at dancing and flirting at the same time," says one student while watching instructor Grant at work. By the end of the night, one teacher has effortlessly gotten phone numbers from several attractive women, and Messenger is in the back of the bar lip-locked with a hottie.

Joe Villanueva*, who completed PickUp 101's "Art of Attraction" in July, says, "All of this crazy stuff has happened. I mean, the social circles I have built alone are rad." But he admits that it takes commitment to practice and go out to really improve on a long-term basis or become as good as his teachers.

Struass and other original pick-up artists had no idea The Game and the business subculture would become such a phenomenon. "We never had any idea that it would be so huge with hundreds of thousands of guys," he says. He thinks it's the beginning of a men's self-help movement that's years in the making compared to similar women's factions. "Just pick up a Cosmo," says Strauss. "There has been a culture of advice for women years in the making."

Mason is happy with his growing business and is in the process of expanding to offer more courses and materials for his increasing clientele. In the meantime, he's very proud of the help he's been giving to the average Joes, or in some cases, not-so-average Joes, of our society. "Everywhere I go. I see my students talking to pretty women," Mason says triumphantly.

See the Pickup 101 workshop schedule here.

Related Pickup 101/Lance Mason links:
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posted by Donovan at 2:10 PM Dating Advice for Men

13 Comments:

Anonymous Anonymous said...

"I have a handful of male friends who tried Lance Mason's PickUp101 Course and were extremely disappointed in the results. These men were already high caliber, well put together, intelligent, attractive and successful men, looking to get some tips on how to be more marketable to the ladies. They thought the service overall was mediocre and didn't learn anything new about how to socialize with women since their preteen years. Their overall impression of Lance was that, at best, he didn't really have that much of a clue about women at all. According to their candid feedback, the so called lessons Lance taught couldn't impress any self respecting REAL woman of substance aside from the typical insecure and younger bar fly variety.

Two thumbs way down!"

11:11 PM, June 19, 2006  
Blogger Donovan said...

I'll get Sean to comment on this one. Try giving examples, I've only heard good things.

Ok, I've got to stop you there. Preteen years? WTF, who knew how to talk to girls, PRETEENS?

With all due respect, Lance is highly clued in with women. Obviously. The photo's I've seen, wow.

8:38 AM, June 20, 2006  
Blogger Sean said...

Hey man, thanks for the candid feedback. We really do appreciate any and all comments we can get to help us make the courses better for our students.

Just a couple of questions for you, if you can indulge me.

Did your friends take Art of Attraction or Art of Rapport weekend workshops? If so, when did they take them?

We are constantly evolving and getting better at teaching, which is not to say that programs weren't good two years ago, but we have learned so much about how to teach what we know, that the value is even better now.

One of the biggest improvements we've made with the program is in getting guys to follow-up and maintain the changes they make during workshops weekends. As anyone who has done any intense personal development work knows, you get a big boost right after training, but it's hard to keep it up.

We have programs now that make sure these changes stick, and that's one thing we are very proud of.

I really appreciate you sharing this with me. Thanks.

12:01 PM, June 20, 2006  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I didn't ask my male friends which courses they specifically took, so can't comment on that. But it's a fact that they were unimpressed with the overall service, not to mention Lance Mason's facade. What did they call him again? A joke!?!

That's great to hear that you are constantly evolving and getting better at teaching Sean. And a plus that you've only heard good things about the service Donovan. I can't comment on that either, since I've only heard poor reviews.

Good luck!

12:18 PM, June 20, 2006  
Blogger Sean said...

Thanks man.

I would love to know more about this, so we can figure out what may not have worked for your friends. I know that some guys who try our approach, which relies very heavily on practice and physical presence, and less on theory and scripts than other companies, have some trouble making the switch, but even that we've gotten better at.

Please tell your friends to send me an email at sean@pickup101.com so we can see if there's anything we can do to improve their results. We really pride ourselves on making sure the changes really work, so I'd hate to think they didn't get what they should have for all the effort they put in.

Me and Lance and everyone at PickUp101 is in this for real. No jokes. No tricks. No games. Just constantly getting better at helping men find what is already cool and fun and sexy about them, and learning how to share it with the women they want so they can have the relationships they want.

It's not easy, but it's our quest. And we're getting there... just a few billion more men to go! :-)

1:06 PM, June 20, 2006  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Sean, thank you for offering your contact information for my friends to get in touch with you. However, it would be a complete waste of their time to contact you at this point, since they personally considered your 'Sensei' and services to be a sham and entirely ineffective. Since the disappointment of taking your class, they have, by their own means, met and established high quality relationships with women. Perhaps, if they weren't so busy developing these relationships, you could expect a response from them. Regardless, I will send them your contact information should they feel compelled to contact you.

I thank you for your time. These forums are a great resource for interested individuals to voice their opinions on these types of services. I look forward to posting their opinion on your services of future discussion boards. Thanks again for the opportunity!

3:22 PM, June 20, 2006  
Blogger Sean said...

That's cool. As long as they have relationships with women that make them happy, that's all we can ask for.

No teacher, no matter how good, can get his message to everyone. I know that I learned a lot from Lance, not only because he knows more than anyone else I know about women, but also because he cares about helping men. That's why I'm working so hard to keep getting this message to guys, and to improve the teaching we do.

If your friends do have any feedback for me, good or bad, I would love to hear it, so we can keep improving and make sure guys leave our workshops feeling like they did get the changes they were hoping for.

It's funny, because one of the reasons I love teaching this stuff, and why I have any kind of ability to help guys figure out how to attract and keep women is because I FAILED so many times before. I mean, I've had lots of great times and great girlfriends, but I've screwed up literally hundreds of relationships. And now I can look back on each one and see just what I was doing wrong, and help other guys avoid those mistakes.

Teaching is very similar to attracting women. The best is not the one who gets it right from day 1. The best is the one who makes mistakes, but is humble enough to acknowledge them, and then smart enough to learn from them and not make them again.

7:52 PM, June 20, 2006  
Blogger Yukonese said...

Sean, you are so hot!

"The best is the one who makes mistakes, but is humble enough to acknowledge them, and then smart enough to learn from them and not make them again."

This is really the motto that I see in Pickup101 community. The community gets better and better, not only at attracting women but also at presenting who they truly are.

I've been around pickup101 for a year now and have gotten to know almost everyone who have came to take the workshops. I'm having the hardest time believing what the anonymous' guy friends are saying.

"The course was extremely disapponting"?
The last day of each workshop, all I see are the happy, satisfied faces in both students and insturctors. Students all sign up for the next course, become friends with instructors and stay late just to thank the community.

"Lance can't impress any self respecting REAL woman of substance aside from the typical insecure and younger bar fly variety."?
A minute you meet him, you know that is a bullsh*t.
Lance is the best person/teacher/friend I've ever met in my life. He cares about his students, instructors and people around him.

Anyway, I'll try not to get too emotional here...

Sean, Pickup101 must be lucky to have you as an instructor. =)

I support Lance and Pickup101 all the way.

11:38 AM, June 27, 2006  
Anonymous Renegade said...

I guess I've seen different things.

Lance is one of the most congruent PUAs out there. Interesting also about the bar fly girls - Lance often says he meets 90% of his women during the day. These are San Francisco women as well - independent, intelligent and with their shit together.

I'd consider them to be "real women of substance."

Renegade

2:16 PM, July 09, 2006  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Dude, you're all wrong in my opinion. The guy's a total sleaze ball and a walking STD from what I hear...stear clear ladies!

~Steve

2:46 PM, August 03, 2006  
Blogger Donovan said...

Doubt it. I met Lance two weekends ago and he's been dating one girl for the last year.

2:54 PM, August 03, 2006  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Well, I know his other girlfriends and they tell a whole different story about his promiscuity. Apparently, he's a liar too, surprise, surprise...

~Steve

3:29 PM, August 04, 2006  
Blogger Donovan said...

Ok, guys, don't listen to Lance! This guy has wild promiscuity in his life and he teaches men to meet women.

Stop posting stupid comments under different names.

3:32 PM, August 04, 2006  

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Should You 'Wait To Call Her Back'?

posted by Donovan at 1:59 PM

Taken from the dating tips mailbag of David DeAngelo.

If you've seen the classic cult movie "Swingers", then you probably remember the part where the guys are discussing how long a guy should wait to call a woman after he's gotten her phone number.

The scene really hits home for a lot of guys because it gets down to a real-world situation that we all confront and ponder.

I get a lot of emails from guys asking me what to do in this very situation.

The more I've thought about it, the more I realize that this particular question (and the answer to it) are part of a bigger, more important CONCEPT about how to deal with women.

Let me explain.

When a guy asks me "How long should I wait to call her?" this immediately tells me a few of things:

1) The guy doesn't feel like he's in control of the situation. If he felt like he was in control, then it he wouldn't ask, because it wouldn't matter.

2) The guy doesn't really "get" how male/female attraction works. If he did get it, then he'd be thinking in those terms rather than trying to figure out the exact best amount of time to wait before calling.

To put it differently, the "when do I call her back?" problem is part of a bigger concept, and once you understand that bigger concept better, then you'll have an automatic feel for when to call a woman back.

Most guys don't "get" one simple point:

If you want a woman to feel ATTRACTION for you, then you must behave differently than if you want her to feel that "just friends" feeling.

In the world of ATTRACTION, things are completely different.

For instance, our moms taught all of us guys to "be nice" to women. This usually includes being sweet and complimentary when first meeting them, answering all of their questions directly, and giving them what they want when they want it.

But if you want a woman to feel that INSTANT GUT LEVEL ATTRACTION right from the beginning, then you're going to have to put aside this kind of thinking, and start learning some NEW ideas.

For instance:

1) A challenge is generally attractive to women.

2) Teasing and being evasive is generally attractive to women.

3) Making fun of a woman's appearance in a flirty way, as counter-intuitive as it might sound, can lead to ATTRACTION.

I'm trying to communicate the idea that when you're dealing with ATTRACTION, you have to put aside old "normal" ways of thinking and behaving.

I would like to mention one more point before getting into the specifics here...

These days, people are becoming very sensitive to having "techniques" used on them.

If a salesman uses a sales technique on us, we immediately get defensive and resistant.

If a panhandler asks for money in a way that smells of "technique" we pass them by without pity.

If a business treats us like a "thing" or a number instead of an individual person, we avoid them or buy elsewhere.

We humans don't like having manipulation techniques used on us, and when we detect that someone or something is using one to get the better of us, we resist.

So let's get back to the "how long to wait before calling her back" issue.

If you think about it, every situation is slightly different. One time you might meet a woman in the morning at coffee, and another time you might meet a woman at a club at 1 in the morning.

If you wait too long to call her back, I think you run the risk of seeming like you're just using a technique on her and you come across as a player who's trying to do your thing on her.

When deciding how long to wait before you call or email, I think it's important to ask yourself this question:

"What will likely INCREASE THE ATTRACTION in this situation?"

Here are a couple of ideas I have used with great success:

1) Email instead of calling first. I personally email the next day. I'll start with a charming email to get the conversation started and then tell her that I'm going to call in a day or two.

This has the effect of making contact with her relatively quickly, but still creating
anticipation because you haven't actually talked.

2) Call the next day, and make a joke about the situation. I might call and say, "Yeah, I was watching Swingers and they said to wait three days to call, but I was kind of in more of a one day mood..."

If you didn't get her email address and you MUST use the phone, just do your best to avoid being AVERAGE.

I personally believe that our attention spans as humans are getting shorter and shorter. We have more and more information coming in from television, newspapers and other sources - and we're getting cultural A.D.D. I think that if you wait too long, you're risking either being seen as using a technique, or risking being forgotten
altogether.

But if you make the opposite mistake and call too soon (for instance a few hours later), you run the risk of being seen as a needy Wuss who has no life.

In past newsletters, I have written about why it's important to leave immediately after getting a woman's email and/or number.

How long you should wait to call her back is a natural extension of this.

As a matter of fact, if you get a woman's email/number and then you keep coming over to talk to her, it can almost be seen as waiting 5 minutes to call her.

There's no anticipation, and it says all the wrong things.

A couple of other quick pointers for when you're making that first call:

1) Be busy. If you're going to ask her to join you for tea or something similar, make sure you mention two times that you're busy for every one time that you're available.

2) Don't linger on the phone. Make that first call short and to the point. If you stay on the phone for more than a few minutes, you're running the risk of getting into a normal "What do you do?", "Where do you live?", "Where did you go to school?" conversation. Avoid this.

To summarize, when in doubt wait a day or so to contact her again.

But more importantly, think about the situation in terms of anticipation and ATTRACTION, so when you do make contact it creates the correct context.

And now I have another question...

Do you enjoy learning the PSYCHOLOGY of how to create ATTRACTION with women? And do you enjoy learning the psychology of how to create more internal confidence... and how to overcome your "Inner Game" psychological issues?

Yeah, me too.

In fact, I think that the PSYCHOLOGY of success with women and dating is the MOST interesting part.

Of course, if you'd like to get my best thinking on how to deal with different situations and make a woman feel that magical emotion called ATTRACTION for you, then you need to read my book "Double Your Dating". It's full of all my best thinking and ideas about how to attract the kinds of women that you've always wanted. Just go to:

Double Your Dating

Your friend,

David DeAngelo

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posted by Donovan at 1:59 PM Dating Advice for Men

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