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The Mystery Method Way: Pursuing vs. Chasing:

12.15.2006

posted by Donovan at 12:08 PM

It’s Sunday afternoon. You met a great woman on Friday or Saturday night, and followed the Mystery Method perfectly. You opened, you created attraction, you qualified, and then you started to build comfort. The situation wasn’t right for you to take it further, so you casually invited her to join you for some exciting event on Monday. She gave you her number.

You phone. It rings a few times and goes to her voicemail. You leave a message. She doesn’t call you back. It’s now Tuesday. What do you do?

1. Maybe call her again next week, but that’s it. You need to have the frame that you have lots of women interested in you and are busy, or else she won’t stay attracted to you anyway.

2. Call or text every day or two with a variety of different approaches, to see if any of them make an impact. Delete the number after a few weeks if you don’t get anywhere.

3. Call every day until she answers. Once in a while call three times in a row to see if that works. After a week or so, drop back to once a week or so. Don’t give up until YOU are no longer interested.

What’s the right answer? Don’t look ahead…

Actually, any of them could be the right answer. In the right context, all of these are okay. Too many beginners in the Mystery Method are too inflexible with the frame that “I have value…she has to come to me” and default to (A). Yes, this is a good frame, and it’s important. However, sometimes you need to do a little bit of pursuing as well.

Why is this? If you obviously have value, why should you have to pursue a woman? Why does she want you to? In short, it’s because this shows that you are genuinely interested in her. In fact, the more value you have, or appear to have, the more a woman will want to see you put in a bit of genuine effort to pursue her. She recognizes that you can have easy conquests, and she doesn’t want to be easy.

Why else? Some women are simply flaky and scatterbrained (so are some men). She may adore you, but you called when she was having dinner, and then she met up with a friend, and now it’s the next day, and she could call you, but now she’s distracted and, anyway, if you’re really interested in her you’ll call again, right?

Why else? She wants to play the traditional female role of being chased. It’s exciting for her, and built into millennia of social programming. It’s not a great frame for men to be in, which is why we short-circuit it when we first meet a woman by disqualifying ourselves during the attraction phase. That’s easy in public, where you can plausibly start a random conversation with an attractive woman without being interested in her (until she wins you over, of course…). It’s not easy on the phone. By calling, you are confirming your interest. That’s why it’s so important to qualify her when you first met, so she feels comfortable with your interest in her, but it does mean that you might feel a little bit of “back to square one” on the telephone. So, yes, she may make you work for it by not returning your phone call. Don’t take it personally.

Why else? Some women are taught “not to call guys”. Yes, it’s pretty silly, but there is just as much silly dating advice for women as there is for men (both you and I are lucky that we found the Mystery Method). There’s nothing you can do about this. Call them. You can fix their silly ideas later.

Now, we covered ages ago some of the crucial tactics to making you she does answer the phone when you call (programming your number into her phone, telling her when you’re going to call, planning a specific event, making her verbalize some anti-flake routines, texting/calling that night, etc.) as well as how to leave a message (leave hooks, cut yourself off, etc.) so we’ll assume that you’ve done all of this, and are still not getting her on the phone. You can give up, of course, and focus your energies on new women. This is totally fine. But you can also set aside a few minutes a day with your “cold” phone numbers and do some of this:

* Vary the time of day when you call. Morning, afternoon, evening, night. If you’re getting nowhere, try calling at 1am. You’ll wake her up, so make sure you can be immediately entertaining from the second she answers. (Start with a high-energy, funny, short routine. Don’t even introduce yourself).

* Call from different numbers

* Try sending text messages – some people simply prefer these to phone calls

* Don’t ever acknowledge that you are calling and she isn’t returning your calls. Adopt the frame – to yourself – that she is just a flaky woman and it’s kind of cute. Don’t let it cross your mind that she might not actually be interested in you.

* Don’t ever say “this is the last time I’m calling” or “I’m calling to leave you another message” – see above. And if you do get her on the phone, don’t even bring up the subject of your previous calls or texts.

* If you phone, and it goes directly to voicemail (and doesn’t ring at all), hang up.You got a free pass. If it doesn’t ring, it won’t show up as a missed call on her phone. She won’t see that you called. If it does ring, leave a message.

On the other hand, don’t turn “pursuing” into “chasing”. If she tells you not to call, stop calling. Don’t be creepy.

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posted by Donovan at 12:08 PM Dating Advice for Men

3 Comments:

Anonymous MikeNYC said...

good post, props.

11:59 PM, December 17, 2006  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

You know what kind of guys girls really like? Guys who don't see girls as the enemy. Or resort to sneaky manipulative mind-f*cking tactics to try to get laid. Manipulation is for children. Real men have enough self-confidence to be straightforward and honest. These "seduction techniques" will not work on any woman with more than half a brain. If that's all you want, good luck to you. -- A Girl

9:31 AM, January 02, 2007  
Blogger Apartment 618 said...

The ditzy ones never get it...

2:02 PM, January 08, 2007  

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eHarmony Review

12.14.2006

posted by Donovan at 11:33 AM

Well, Thundercat posted an article on his blog about eHarmony. From what he was saying, it sounds like the worst site on the Internet. Not only is it a waste of time (literally - time consuming to setup an account), but it also seems like there's nothing but freak show, desperate women on there. AFC's we need you, go over to this site, eHarmony and do some charity work.

In the end, Thundercat ended up saying:

"Over all, I’d say that eHarmony is one of the WORST dating sites for guys out there. Personally, I think that company is kept afloat by a gaggle of desperate, ugly women who struck out on all the other dating sites out there. If you’re looking to get some quality results with online dating, go for a site that gives you more freedom and better search quality, like Match or Yahoo. And if you don’t want to pay for it, stick to MySpace."

If you want the edge with online dating, like a total system with secret techniques and results based on experience from experts, check out David Deangelo's "Meeting Women Online" DVD set. Really awesome stuff.

Donovan

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posted by Donovan at 11:33 AM Dating Advice for Men

14 Comments:

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Totally agree about eharmony. It does suck. You get profiles of potential matches sent to you pretty regularly. The problem is that only about 2 out of the 10 have photos.

1:13 PM, December 14, 2006  
Blogger Sean said...

I know there are guys who have systems and even success with online dating sites, but honestly?

They all suck. Fucking underhanded schemes to keep siphoning money from guys who aren't quite ready to take the chance in real life. Both Match.com and Yahoo settled suits that accused them of seeding results with fake hot girl photos and fake profiles.

IMO, take the money, time and effort you would put in to online dating, and invest it instead in ANY program that helps you meet and get girls in real life. It's just smarter business.

2:17 PM, December 14, 2006  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

those dating sites are sort of scary. but tell me about craigslist. is there anything good there?

3:37 PM, December 14, 2006  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Has anybody written a program that does your email correspondence for you so you don't have to do anything until you show up for the date?

3:39 PM, December 14, 2006  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I've been checking out a number of dating sites, and yeah, most of them really suck. Here's what I can tell you:

PAY SITES:
theonion.com's personals aren't too bad, though unless you pay to become a silver or gold member, you can only see the default photo of the listings. You can earn 'points' to email other members there for free, mostly by uploading more photos of yourself, up to I think 4 free emails worth - the nice thing, though, is that people can reply to you for free, and as long as you keep replying back and forth on the same thread, you only actually pay for the first email. Once you run out of points, you can buy more - it ends up costing about $1.00 per initial email, which isn't too bad, if you don't pay to become a member, which is actually pretty expensive. Unfortunately, I kinda get the feeling that for anyplace except really big cities, the dating pools on it are kinda small. Oh, by the way, theonion.com's personals are exactly the same as those on nerve.com and bitch.com and a few other sort of 'hip' sites. It's run by a company called FastCupid.

mate1.com/match.com/true.com - these all totally suck ass. In my experience, nearly all the women on them are incredibly unappealing in many ways. Expensive sites and totally worthless.

yahoo personals - somehow it seems maybe a *little* better than those above, but not by much. Seems to have at least maybe a few more appealing women, but really - when you get right down to it, it sucks.

adultfriendfinder.com - this is also run by fastcupid, and pretty much seems to be for people who are *desperate* to have sex. But people also actually seem to make friends there, and there does kind of seem to be a sort of 'community' vibe to it. I met kind of a cool girl on it, but we never ended up hooking up, mostly because it turned out she had some physical handicaps that made it difficult for her to get around, but she was fun to IM with anyway. The surprising thing is, adultfriendfinder is actually quite a bit cheaper to subscribe to than theonion.com's membership prices, and you can email as much as you want on the basic membership level. Not a bad deal, but still I think it's sorta limited by the pool of people on there, which will vary by area, of course. I only subscribed to it for a month, and then let it lapse.

FREE SITES:

plentyoffish.com - this is kind of a weird site. it also kind of has a 'community' vibe to it, and they organize a lot of local meet-ups and things, but I've never attended any. Why? Because just about all the people on it, in my area anyway, are pretty hideous looking. I chatted briefly with a couple of women from it, but mostly couldn't find much of interest there. I'm sure it would depend on your locality, but it's totally free, so may be worth checking out.

myspace.com - not really a dating site, but lots of people use it like one. The upside is that *soooo* many people have myspace accounts. The downside is that 99% of people on MySpace are total flakes. But it's possible to meet some cute girls here, I've met 3 or 4 from here.

and now, my very favorite dating site of all, by far the very best, IMHO:

okcupid.com - they're mostly famous for their goofy personality quizzes, but it's a really pretty cool dating site too. You answer hundreds and hudreds of interesting survey-type questions about various things, and they determine various things about your personality, and then match you up with people in your area (or around the world) who match up to your survey questions. It's pretty cool, and as far as I can tell, fairly accurate. What's kinda funny is both me and my ex-girlfriend (who is now just a really good friend) answered a bunch of questions, and we ended up getting like a 94% match with each other, which is really pretty incredibly high of a match, so I figure it knows what it's talking about. There's *lots* of women on it, and pretty cool, interesting ones too - and more nice looking women on it than any other site I've seen so far too. And it's all totally free, no charges whatsoever for anything - definitely check it out. And no, I don't work for them either.

good luck!
JC

8:10 AM, December 15, 2006  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Lots of trolls and gay guys collecting pics on CL. Often you'll see the same posts and photos in several cities on the same day. But sometimes the same photos show up on women seeking women and women seeking men within the same city, which opens up a whole new realm of possibilities.

Starting a conversation with someone on Rants and Raves is generally more productive than one of the romance sites.

10:05 AM, December 15, 2006  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

JC dude, you rock hard. thanks for the heads up on OKCupid. I signed up and like it so far.

9:54 PM, December 15, 2006  
Blogger The Seduction Project said...

As far as CL goes, I've met several really cute women from there, so it is possible. I even met my last GF from there.

The upside of CL is that it's free, you don't have to fill out any gay bios or questionnaires, and you can pretty much write whatever you want in your post as long as you don't violate their terms about content.

The downside to it is that, being a free site, there are a lot of flakes and fakes out there, so be prepared for some frustration on that end.

All you really have to do on CL is be creative and persistent. CREATIVITY is really important as most m4w ads start to look the same over time. And be PERSISTENT, too. Test different ads at different times of day to see when people are on. I've personally found that if you post in the morning of a weekday you get the most response, because people cruise CL while they're bored at work, as they can't cruise other dating sites for fear of getting caught. Sunday morning is a close second.

Hope this helps, and write if you want to know more.

Tony M.

8:16 PM, December 16, 2006  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

What is CL??

9:58 AM, December 17, 2006  
Blogger The Seduction Project said...

Craig's List.

T

8:39 PM, December 17, 2006  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Faceparty.com can also be a good place to pick up HBs

3:53 AM, December 21, 2006  
Blogger Sean said...

Hmmm... I think I need to get back out there and test this online stuff again just to know what's out there and help me with my coaching.

Thanks for the input, guys.

12:33 PM, January 04, 2007  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I disagree on the Myspace thing. A good thing Myspace has going for it is that you can see when a person last logged on, and this makes flaking a bit harder.

I started reading PUA stuff about 8 months ago. I was using Match, but it was sucking ass. I got one date (psycho) and chicks that flaked many times. Now I'm using Myspace. I'm talking to 6 or 7 chicks at once currently, got one phone #, and its only been a month, maybe even less!. It took me three months of bullshit and money on Match to get what I find alot easier on Myspace. I'm not only going to use Myspace though, but Free sites like Myspace, Friendster, even emailing random chicks from Yahoo searches (not personals) as far as Yahoo messenger, or even Aol messenger. It clicked after I started listening to alot of Deangelo, in all honesty. Why pay for something that is so unreliable? Now that it is free for me, I am more successful, oh the irony, but not really. I really believe that my online sarging success is achievable, because the results, though small, are making me believe that the whole thing is worth it. Anyway, advice: don't ever pay for something you can get for free, and Myspace and other sites allow you to not spend a damn red cent on sarging online.

And as for the person who asked for an "automated" program, dude, just please get a clue..Its taking me alot of practice (Daily sometimes) to learn what to do and say but its working a lot better than it was..I was doing the non recommended dumb AFC shit like "winks" before. No wonder I was sucking ass at it! I decided to put myself in a frame of mind where I didn't give a shit, just say what comes to mind (but be congruent, this is what was missing before) and the results are actually scaring my busy ass! I don't have time to date all these chicks, but its something I dedicated my life to for the time being, (Sarging in general, not just online), and my band is on the rocks so I have the time to do all this shit now.

I agree about the online dating sites. They exist for one purpose only: MONEY.

Same as the PUA guys in some ways, but those guys can help you way more permanently than paying for some online dating site. I thank Ross, Neil, Wayne, Mystery (though I'm not into the same type as he), and David D for helping me get on the right path with this. Its going to take me by my own personal estimate, 2 or 3 years to fix this shit, but at least I'll be 31 or 32 "Getting it" instead of a 40 year old bachelor depressed on my ass without dates, or divorced from some nagging cow.

6:36 PM, July 10, 2007  
Blogger stargazincdesign said...

A friend of mine was recently divorced and, after getting over the immediate trauma of the divorce, decided to join the dating world again. He had never tried any computer dating services but he is the adventurous type so he thought he would give it a try. He looked around the net and eventually decided to try online4love.com. He is an insurance agent, and a pretty successful one at that, so he had a pretty good profile in online4love.com. He lives in Southern California, drives a BMW and makes more than $100,000 per year.

Overall, he gave online4love.com a good review. He said that he had at least half a dozen different dates in the first six months of his subscription to online4love.com. He said that all the women he found were in the same general situation as he was -- middle-aged and generally upper class. He also said that they generally had the same basic interests that he did -- a non-permanent relationship, usually including sex.

He said that the results from http://www.online4love.com were good enough that he renewed his subscription for an additional year. In fact, the results were so good that he wound up canceling his subscription.

4:25 PM, April 30, 2008  

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Texting Eliminates Flakes

12.11.2006

posted by Sean Messenger at 12:12 PM

There are lots of theories on how to get the solid date and avoid flaking, but recently I've tested and proven an approach that works every time.

You have to just assume you KNOW when you're together whether or not it's on for the future. You can feel how strong the connection is. If it's really there, just don't screw anything up. Send her a cute SMS the next day, let her reply, then SMS telling her when you'll call. Then call, have a short, fun chat, and set the date and time to meet again.

Don't overthink this stuff or try to overgame with phone and SMS. This may be the biggest community-induced mistake I have had to undo. If she gave you her real number, she already likes you. So just assume all you need to do now is make it easy for her to get in contact with you.

Use text first. Calling first is always more of a risk because people do NOT answer their phone unless they know the number (and people like me don't answer their phone even if they know it, choosing instead to time-shift with voicemail).

The text allows her to see who it is, and lets her THINK and FEEL about you before replying. It lets her remember. It also prepares her to talk to you, so she's looking forward to it.

Personally I have always HATED the phone. I hate when the phone rings, I hate talking on it, I hate not being able to see the person, etc. But I love little notes. That's what text is. Little love notes passed in class to keep the fire going until you see each other again.

===

Here's my classic failsafe... I've probably sent some variation on this 1000 times.

"hey cutie... it's weird... i was just thinking of you... :-)"

With text, be quick and cute. Don't go for too cocky. Remember, cocky doesn't work without body language and non-verbal cues. Your text should be like a cute little note you drop in her purse that pings her to remember the good feelings she had when with you. That's all.

My RULES for text messages:

1. I always address them with pet names like darlin', sweetie, cutie pie, sexy, gorgeous, adorable brat, etc.

2. I use proper grammar. I don't use the normal abbreviations. If you do, U R 2 stop. I do abbreviate stuff like family to "fam", San Francisco to SF, etc. I hope I don't have to say this, but NEVER USE LEET SPEAK (wikipedia it if you don't know). Know the difference between "your" and "you're", "to" and "too", etc. A side rule to this, the more sexual the message, the more proper the grammar you should use. Which feels sexier, "I want 2 slowly kiss Ur lips…" or "I want to slowly kiss your lips…"?

3. Sign your name when it is the first one or two text messages you send (credit: Robert1). All you do is write your text, then at the end add "-Sean." Replace "Sean" with your own name though, or include my cell phone number in the text if you don't.

4. I use a lot of smiley faces This replaces the big friendly smile you would have on your face when you deliver a banter line. Text messages should basically be banter lines. I do not use any other faces other than smiley faces. No winky face no "P" face (I actually don't even know what this is supposed to mean), etc. Some might disagree, but personally I think this borders on leet speak, which is not ok. Furthermore, I want my words to convey my message. If my words, punctuation and a smiley face aren't enough, then I feel I am doing something wrong.

5. I use rich descriptions. If I do say how I am doing, I make it descriptive. In response to "how R U?" I might reply "Just saw the sunset over the bay, the sky's glowing orange - looks incredible!"

6. Jump on the offers a girl makes. An "offer" is a term from improv acting. It is when one actor says something that describes something about the other actor.

Example, one actor says to the other, "I like that large funny hat you have on", the other actor then would go on with that theme of wearing a large funny hat.

It is a little different with text messages, but if a girl sends you something that you can make fun and sexy, do it. For example, I got a text message from one of the girls the other night, "buenas noches. Dulces suenos guapo." [translates: good night. Sweet dreams, handsome]. I replied the next morning by writing, "good morning, beautiful. Have a good day." Except I wrote it in french. I took her theme, and replied in a way that was similar, but original and charming.

Your TOOLS:

Brevity: You have to say everything very quickly. If you can't say it in about 10 to 20 words, then rework it until you can. It is ALWAYS possible to flirt in less than 12 words, in my opinion. If you don't think so, "you are a dork :) " (see, it is that easy). Get rid of everything and anything that is not necessary, by not necessary I mean not flirty and fun.

Punctuation: The main punctuation techniques I use are CAPS, ellipses… exclamation!!! Question marks?? both?!?!, [brackets], and (parenthesis). And smiley face as I mentioned before :) These all have different emotional effects, use them! Caps are REALLY EXCITING!! Wtf?!? [roll my eyes] don't make me.. come over there… and wrap my arms around you… (I won't spank tooo hard)

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posted by Sean Messenger at 12:12 PM Dating Advice for Men

6 Comments:

Anonymous Anonymous said...

great tips, sean. thanks!

5:22 PM, December 12, 2006  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

A "P" face is a smiley which is showing you it's tongue [ :P ]. It's kinda redundant though, because a wink [ ;) ] basically conveys the same message.

1:27 PM, December 13, 2006  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

hey what should you do if you're the flake? like i collect a lot of numbers but i never call any of the girls. what's wrong with me? am i like gay or something?

5:38 PM, December 13, 2006  
Blogger Sean said...

You know how I know you're gay?

You get numbers from girls but never sex 'em up. :-)

IME, the smiley is the only emoticon you need. Winks and other more complex ones don't quite convey the teasing you are aiming for. Just be fun and sweet.

2:19 PM, December 14, 2006  
Blogger Donovan said...

Oh 40 Year Old Virgin! What a great movie. You know how I know you're gay? Cause you have a bumper sticker that says "I like it when balls are in my face".

2:35 PM, December 14, 2006  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

hahaha, very funny. enough of the joking already. what advice you got for me?

8:03 PM, December 15, 2006  

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NEW! Mystery Method Relationship Seminar

12.10.2006

posted by Donovan at 6:37 PM

Would you like to learn how to handle a girlfriend?

Would you like to know how to handle multiple long-term relationships?

As I talk to guys, I notice that the community is extremely focused on pickup. We gotta realize that pickup is only PART of seduction, the other part is RELATIONSHIP. The advice you get out in the real world is that you need to be nice, submissive, and the women is mostly right.

Well...

The Mystery Method will teach the best methods for lasting attraction and intimacy. Get rid of those cheating girlfriend/wife worries... =)

Savoy tells me that if you'd like to reserve a spot for this groundbreaking community seminar in Los Angeles at the end of January, you need to get in fast, spots will be limited, so contact me for a discounted 'friends only' price. Not even people on the Mystery Method mailing list/lounge/forum know about this yet. (Their email list has probably over 35,000 members... once it hits there, spots will be gone)

Visit www.themysterymethod.com/rm.htm and remember to mention my blog/name and it will save you $50 off the price.

Don't be a fool, stay in school! - Van Wilder

Donovan

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posted by Donovan at 6:37 PM Dating Advice for Men

5 Comments:

Blogger houman said...

As long as its 1$ than i can afford it :) (not to mention the ticket there and back is the major investment)

always a long shot, but I'm game for 1$.

hit me up!!

8:21 PM, December 10, 2006  
Blogger Douglas said...

sounds like a great seminar and the timing is good... send me the details

12:50 AM, December 11, 2006  
Blogger Donovan said...

You need to make your profile public, or just simply email me for the discount.

10:34 AM, December 11, 2006  
Blogger Poncelot said...

I'm game...let me know about the discount

11:04 AM, December 11, 2006  
Blogger Sean said...

It's good to hear that everyone in the community is coming around to the idea that we all need training in relationships as well as attraction.

I don't know any guys who want to be chasing 20-year-olds around with a bag o tricks when they're 55, but I know a ton of guys who want more than anything to know how to get an amazing woman and keep her around.

I have to admit... after teaching relationships for a few years now, I'm curious to see how others do it.

12:09 PM, December 11, 2006  

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Inside Mystery Method

posted by Donovan at 5:37 PM

I've recently spoken to my friend Savoy, CEO of Mystery Method. He told me of exciting stuff happening over there, and about a new blog featuring his adventures in his dating life, and the running of a pickup business. Check it out here.

Donovan
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posted by Donovan at 5:37 PM Dating Advice for Men

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