Thundercat (Seduction Masters Interview)

Tell me about yourself!

Okay. My handle is "Thundercat," I'm 27 years old, living in beautiful sunny Hollywood California where the only thing hotter than the weather, are the women who live here.

Currently, I run my own business, and most of my time is spent selling my ebook and updating my blog, when I'm not out trying to have a life.

I've been in "the game" since 1998, when I was a sophomore in college. I've continued through it in varying degrees, but I didn't get hard core until I move out to Los Angeles and started meeting the Grand Master PUAs.

I have a few different websites, they are:

How to Meet Women (Link)
Better Sex (Link)
Bang Hot Strippers (Link)
The Mos Eisley Cantina (as I like to call it - Seduction Lair) (Link)

1. Describe the moment, when you suddenly realized, "I need to work out this part of my life."

Funny story...

So it was a Friday night back in 1998, and I was rooming with this guy who was a real "Jock." Good looking, parents had money, was in a frat, all that jazz. He was basically the kind of guy I'd come to hate, simply because he was everything I wasn't.

So one night, there I am, weighing in at close to 300 lbs, lonely and shy, with no plans for a date what-so-ever. And my Jock roomie comes walking in with two drop-dead hotties.

He just came by to pick up some stuff, but since he was a nice guy, he invited me to go to this frat party he and the girls were going to.

I took one look at the girls and chickened out. It was like the cold hand of death was gripping my stomache and I just couldn't imagine going out with them to a wild and crazy frat-bash.

So I declined, and they left. A few hours after that, I ordered some pizza, and tried to find something to watch on TV. The only thing half-way decent that was on was a rerun of "Three's Company."

At some point while watching this show, I seem to realize that Suzan Summers used to be wicked hot. Still thinking about the girls I decided not to go out and party with, I decide it's time to feel better by "mastering my domain," if you will.

So there I am, alone on a Friday, watching a Three's Company rerun, my dick in one hand, a slice of pizza in the other, and all of a sudden, the true patheticness of the situation hits me.

I had hit rock bottom.

At this point, I don't know what happens. I fly into a rage, throw the pizza against a wall, flip over my bed, and just start wrecking my room. Eventually I collapse and start crying.

When that happened, I basically said to myself: Okay, you got two choices here. Either kill yourself, or stop being so pathetic and get a girlfriend.

Needless to say, I chose the latter.

Once that decision was made, I turned to the only thing I had available to me: The internet!

The first thing I did was go to Yahoo and type in "How to not be a fat pathetic loser." But there was nothing there. Then I started thinking about what I needed to do to get a girl, and typed in "Seduction."

Low and behond, there was Ross Jeffries Speed Seduction site on the first page. He claimed you didn't need to be good looking, and that you could get any woman in bed just by using hypnotic language.

Well, I thought that sounded pretty darn good, so I ordered his course that night, and that was pretty much how I got into the community.

Inspiring, isn't it? =)

2. Have you had any mentors (perhaps well-known pickup artists) within the community/life that have helped you improve your game, and what did they teach you?

Oh, God yeah.

I honestly don't think you can ever achieve anything in life without mentors. And Pick-up is no exception.

The problem is, most men don't have great mentors when it comes to learning about women. Their dad is either absent or clueless, their friends are usually just as desperate and inexperienced as they are, and the women in their lives give them a lot of bad advice on what to do.

When I first started learning about seduction in college, I was in a vacuum. I was too ashamed to tell my friends what I was doing, so it was like my "dirty little secret."

The problem with doing that was the fact that I simply couldn't improve. I had no feedback or guidance, just some audio tapes and access to an online mailing list.

It wasn't until I moved out to Los Angeles and started my own lair that I really started to improve, and that was simply due to having other people who were learning this stuff to talk to and bounce ideas off of.

Since then, I've had the pleasure from learning from some of the best ladies men out there. I don't like to name drop, but here are a few of the people I can say I got a lot from:

Swinggcat
Style (Neil Strauss)
Mystery
Hypnotica
Steve P.
Masterclass
Zan
Craig
Playboy
Sickboy
Christopher
David DeAngelo
Craig
Twenty-Six
Maddash
Masterclass
Roadking
Cameron Teone
Dreamweaver
Rick H.

This list goes on. But the fact is I learn something from EVERYONE I meet in this community, even people you wouldn't consider gurus. Hell, I even learn from people like Ross Jeffries and Tyler Durden. I don't exactly admire those guys, but they've taught me a lot about what NOT to do, and that can be just as important as knowing what TO do.

But I'd have to say that out of everyone, Style (the most powerful of the Jedi) is someone I learned my biggest lesson from. He's the one who taught me how to break my fear of meeting women, and after that, my whole life changed.

Sometimes all it takes is one lesson learned to alter the path your life was taking.

3. Can you describe the first time you used a counter-intuitive routine that yielded it's promised results, and how you felt?

LOL

I'd go so far as to say that ALL routines are counter-intuitive. I mean, it just feels weird to do the stuff we're supposed to do, be it dressing like a color-blind crackhead or spouting off 30-odd memorized stories some other dude came up with.

But to answer your question, I'll have to go back to what I said about Style in the previous question.

I was at my first ever Mystery Method workshop. And here I was, a total loser with women by anyone's standards, and I was just taken in by the whole thing. But still, all the instructors were these fairly good looking dudes, and here I was a fat, awkward dude. I just couldn't relate! I was like "Yeah, this might work for you, but what about ugly fucks like me???"

So when Style showed up, here was this skinny, bald dude with a big nose who looked like a young Mr. Burns. But all the other instructors, and Mystery himself, couldn't stop talking about this guy's prowess, so I said to myself: "This is the guy I want to learn from!"

So when it came time for the in-field workshop, I was sure to follow Style. I basically stalked the guy and watched him work. He'd effortlessly walk up to chicks and pick them up. It was the equivalent of watching someone turn their head inside-out and start flying with invisible wings -- I just didn't think it was possible!

Eventually, I walked up to Style and said: "Hey man, I'm freaking out here."

"Why?" he responded.

"I'm too scared to talk to any women. I just don't think I can do this."

Now, there were a lot of approaches Style could have taken there. He could have told me to suck it up. He could have shrugged it off. Or he could have done demonstrations for me all night. But none of those would have helped me.

Instead, he took me away from the main group into a new club, just me and him. And he pointed at a group of two girls and a guy and said: "See that 3-set right there? I want you to walk up to them, use the Who Lies More opener, get their responses, and then come back to me."

"That's it?" I said.

"That's it," he responded.

So I went and did that, feeling like a complete tool. I was thinking "These girls are gonna see right through me. They're gonna laugh at me. I'm going to look like an ass."

So I walked up and said: "Hey guys, who do you think lies more, men or women?"

And the entire group just STARED at me. I was thinking "Ohhhh shit. Here it comes."

But suddenly, to my surprise, the girls started giving me answers. And they didn't just give me an answer, they started arguing over what the right answer was!

After I got their opinions, I went back to Style. I wa totally amazed that this "opener" had actually worked just like they said it would!

So Style kept sending me out to do the exact same thing to more groups. By the third time, I was hooked. I became an approach machine. The next night of the workshop, I ended up talking to 15 women (which was fifteen more than I'd met in the previous year since I moved to LA!).

4. Could you describe what you're life was like before you were aware of this, and/or what options you have with women now?

Well, my life was pretty average, I guess. It's hard for me to know what to compare it to other than the lives of people on TV.

My dad worked a lot, and I was the oldest of three brothers, so I didn't exactly have a lot of male role models. My brothers do pretty well with girls, but I think that's mostly because they saw what I was doing and said "I'm gonna do the opposite of that!" and it worked for them. Lol.

So most of my love/relationship advice came from my mom, who - bless her soul - gave me a lot of terrible ideas about how to attract women. You know, things like: Buy her flowers, be respectful, blah, blah, blah.

I went through high school with three girlfriends, but always felt really awkward around women because I didn't really understand them. I'd always want the girls I couldn't have (which lead to a lot of high school drama and rejection on my part), and I'd settle with the girls I could get (and that never made me very happy).

I kept thinking "If I could lose my virginity, everything would change. I'd know how to be a better man and get more chicks."

It wasn't until I was in college that this happened. I met this girl at a friend's party, and we had a great conversation. She was fairly cute (I'd rate here at a 7.5 in PUA jargon). Her family ran a mortuary, so we talked about dead people a lot, oddly enough. This was around the time I was learning all the "Speed Seduction" stuff, so I tried using all this hypnotic language with her, but she was so drunk it didn't even matter. We ended up hooking up that night, and I woke up the next morning thinking "Okay, so... am I a man now?"

But I honestly didn't feel any different than I did the night before. Still felt lost, still felt clueless.

As things turned out, the girl I slept with didn't even go to my college, she was in town visiting my friend, and ended up leaving. I tried to angle for a "second rendezvous," but nothing ever came of it. So I chalked that success up to: Right Time, Right Place, Right Amount Of Booze.

Since then, I've learned a lot about women and come a long way (at least I think so).

I don't really like to share my personal successes online because people can so easily rip into them. I've seen what happens when Mystery shows pictures of his girlfriends online, and you always have some douchebag going "She's an UG!" and calling him a fake, so it's not important to me to bring the girls I date into that sort of mess just to prove something to the flamers and trolls out there.

I've settled down since my hay-day of going out 5-6 nights a week. I tend to go out on the weekends, and the girls I see are more bred from my social circle than cold pick-ups now, though I still do those occasionally.

In terms of options, I just go after women I like. I don't try to narrow the field, because you never know when someone will surprise you, so I like to keep my options open.

5. What was your hardest/biggest sticking point?

Without a doubt, it's my belief system.

Beliefs are the single, hardest thing in the world to fix. If you believe in bad, negative, and just plain wrong things, you tend to feel that good, positive, and factual things are false.

This can cause HAVOC with your life.

For instance, I used to believe I had to look like Brad Pitt to get a woman attracted to me. After all, women like good looking guys, right?

All I'd have to do is look around, and count the times every time I saw some fat old ugly guy with a really attractive chick. But even THEN, I'd believe that was a special case and I'm doomed to suffer from a life of loneliness.

Once I got into the PUA game, I started to realize than women process attraction in different ways then men do. Most of the girls I've been with don't care about how a man looks (thank God for that, lol). I was talking to an ex girlfriend the other day who recently got engaged, and her husband to be is something like 320 lbs. But guess what? He's smarter than her! And that's why she's into him.

The entire time I was with her, I was miserable because I kept thinking she was going to leave me for a thinner, better looking guy. It was my bad attitude that eventually lead to the break up. D'oh!

It was my BELIEF that I had to look a certain way to get women that would really handicap me. I had so many opportunities where a woman was actually INTO me, where she would have slept with me, but my belief system would say things like:

"She's not really into you. Pay no attention."
"There's something wrong with her if she likes an ugly guy like you."
"It's a trick! She's leading you on only to hurt you!"

The fact was I was just a cool guy these girls dug - but I couldn't see it.

Ever since I started really focusing in on the root causes of my problems - my bad belief system - and have addressed it, things have really picked up. I feel better about myself, and so do the people around me.

6. Do you have a favorite routine/step in your model, can you describe it, and what it accomplishes?

My favorite step is where I can foret all the routines and tactics and just be me.

I'm a lazy dude, and I hate memorizing stuff. So I enjoy it when I can just relate to a woman on a personal level without having to run game on her.

At some point, you HAVE to run game because you need a strategy to get her into bed or keep some other dude from stealing her, or whatever. But for the most part, I enjoy just talking normally without all the BS.

I tend to use an opener when I meet a woman, then search for a commonality to connect on, and try to engage her in conversation before pushing for an "insta-date" or a phone number. That's pretty much my model. It might not be as effective as something like Mystery Method, but it's easier for me to pull off.

7. Have you had the experience yet, where you feel that you've reached a certain degree of mastery? Can you explain the time, and how you got the realization?

No, 'cause I don't feel I'm there yet! lol.

It's funny because I've come so far from the guy who whacked off to Three's Company so many years ago. I definitely don't consider myself an AFC anymore, and even though I can go out and pick up women, I don't feel like a pick up artist.

I still feel I have so much to learn. I'll probably always feel that way. I'll always feel I need to keep improving and doing better.

I think people who say "Okay, I've reached master level! I don't have to do any more work!" are stupid. People like Mystery, who will not be shy about saying he's the greatest PUA to ever walk the Earth, still tries to do new things and learn from others, which is probably why he's still at the top of the game.

This notion that there are "Ranks" in PUA-dom always makes me laugh. I get emails from guys saying things like "I've decided I'm going to become an mPUA!" Like once that happens you get a metal pinned on your chest telling everyone you're a master or something.

It's such bullshit.

I've been around some of the greats - guys who are considered Pick Up Gods - and seen women tell them to "fuck off," or slap them, or get drinks spilled on them.

And these are the MASTERS!

The fact is, you can't ever qualify success as a Pick-Up artist, because there are too many variables.

Mystery has this "5-for-5" concept which is supposed to determine mastery in the venusian arts, but I completely disagree with it. He thinks if you can approach 5 women and make all five your girlfriend (five successes from five approaches) that means you're a master.

But here's my thing...

Being happy is more important than being a "Master."

Let's say all I want is a fat chick. Maybe that's my thing, where I say "I'm into fat girls!" and I can go out and pick up any fat chick I want. I could walk around and say "I'm a master pick up artist!" But anyone who saw the women I'm with would say I'm full of shit, because fat chicks aren't hot to anyone who doesn't have a fetish.

But if I really LIKE fat chicks, and I'm happy to get them, why shouldn't I be considered a master?

See the quagmire there?

Every man has his own idea of what a "Master" pick up artist should be. But to me, I don't even WANT to be a master. I just want to find 1 girl to settle down with and grow old with. That's my thing. I want a girl who I find attractive and fun to be with.

Some guys want to have 3 bisexual women all the time. Some want supermodels. And everyone has their own definition of what kind of woman is "beautiful."

That's why I hate this ranking stuff. I'll never rag on another man because I don't think his girl is hot. There was a time when people were making fun of Ross Jeffries because he was dating some old fat chick. I don't care what she looks like, because if he likes her, who am I to judge? I didn't even know he could actually get a woman, so I guess that impressed me more than what she looked like, lol.

8. What advice would you give to newbies starting out, in order to greatly accelerate their learning curve?

Meet up with other guys who do this stuff, befriend them, and help each other to learn.

There's so much crappy stuff out there, technique wise, that once you meet up with other guys you'll learn what to use and what to avoid.

You'll also have people to keep you motivated, and you'll have people you can speak with about problems and issues, which is vital to success.

Just having guys you can talk about this stuff with can be really liberating, because you may be too embarrassed to discuss it with your current friends.

9. What's your belief on inner game, and how did you improve it?

My belief is that inner game is THE single most important factor to success.

But it's also the hardest to improve.

Everyone has different levels of inner game. Some guys need more help than others.

I think when it comes to fixing inner game, it's a three step process:

1. Identify your bad beliefs
2. Be willing to change, even if you have to do stupid or embarrassing stuff to do so.
3. Have the willpower to see it through to the end.

If you can do those three things, you can fix any problem you have.

10. Do you have a personal favorite field report (your own) that you could relay?

I don't do too many field reports, because I tend to write really detailed stuff and it takes me forever to do them. Plus, most of the time I'm out with really high profile PUAs, and they all have girlfriends who keep tabs on them through the internet, so I have to be careful about what I write not to get my friends in trouble, heh, heh, heh.

I have some great stories I'd love to share, but won't, simply because I don't want to write them out. But there are a lot of field reports I did from a few years back, when I was really hitting the club scene here in Hollywood hard. I'll point to on my blog. You can find it here:

http://www.thundercatseductionlair.com/field_report/index.html

11. What is your current sticking point (if any)?

I think I already answered that, lol. But if you want a sticking point more related to the community, I'd have to say that it's dealing with all the negativity out there.

There are so many guys out there with so much anger and frustration, I think they take it out on me and others in the community because it's easier to blame us "gurus" than it is to own their failures and try to improve.

I try to ignore most of it and focus on positive aspects of my life, like meeting women, being with friends, advancing my career, etc.

12. What are you goals now within the community, and in life?

Wow, where to start.

In life, my goal is to make a good living, find a good woman, and raise a good family. That's all I want and could ask for.

In the community, my goals are a little more nefarious.

Selfishly, I love having a popular blog because I get to meet some of the most interesting people on the planet. I've met so many PUAs who are amazing, weird, evil, or fascinating just through that, and I learn so much from them all.

I get to see what people think of me and others. I get to shed light on topics I find interesting or important.

I really want to learn more techniques and advice, and meet more people this year. A lot of the old school guys have some good stuff, but it's with the newer PUAs we're going to see the best technology spring from.

I also want to encourage more seduction blogging. When I started, I think there were 1 or 2 other PUAs blogging about their experiences. But then I came along and my blog got real popular, and it inspired other people to start their blogs, which is great. The more the merrier! I think blogs are great tools to help you focus your thoughts and learn about this stuff (plus, you get feedback).

I also want to shed more light on some of the shady business practices going on in the community. I know I get a lot of flack for being "negative" or whatever, but to me, when I hear about some poor guy getting ripped off, I think back to where I was when I first started and how that would have affected me.

At that point I say: What's more negative? Allowing good guys to continue to be hurt and misled? Or shedding some light on what's going on and try to help others find the right system for them?

Because of me, Ross Jeffries was called to the mat on a lot of his B.S. He runs his list like a dictator, telling people they aren't allowed to read stuff that isn't Speed Seduction related. You can't even post a technique on there that isn't about SS, even if it would be helpful (and most of his stuff isn't). The best thing I ever did for myself was get out of Speed Seduction and learn new methods of pick up and seduction. You can't improve in a closed system, but Ross's greed overpowers his willingness to help his students. He'd rather them buy from him than help them get what they need. He also is really insecure about competition because he knows his stuff is no where near as good as other people's, like Mystery's. The best Speed Seduction students all left for better methods for God's sake! But he still keeps on trucking...

I see the same mentality in Real Social Dynamics. It's a real shame, because I actually really liked those guys. Like Ross, they have the ability to suck people into a cult-like atmosphere where everyone is "competition" and if you're not with them, you're against them. That's a negative mindset and it doesn't help people and hurts them in the long run.

But because of my blog, they now offer a Money Back Guarantee! Something they NEVER offered before. It's still not a very good guarantee, but at least I got them to change their practices a little.

A lot of these guys think I'm "out to get them" or looking to "destroy their businesses." I could care less about that. I have no desire to destroy someone's livelihood. But if that livelihood is made by hurting guys who are trying to improve their lives and ripping them off, you bet your ass I'm going to take them to task over it!

To me, this community is about helping other guys. That's what it's always been about. You can still help guys by charging for services and information I have no problem with that. It's when you choose to hurt others to make a quick buck, or for the sake of your ego, that I have a problem with.

So I just want to keep on helping guys in this community as best I can. =)

Other Seduction Masters Interviews:

• Introducing the Seduction Masters Interviews
• Stephen Nash (Playboy)
• Herbal
• Sean
• Neil Strauss