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Herbal (Seduction Masters Interview)

5.11.2006

posted by Donovan at 2:15 PM

Seduction Masters Interview

Tell Me About Yourself!

I'm 25, living in Austin TX. I've been in the game for about 3 years, tovarying degrees. Right now I barely go out, but back in LA I would often times go out seven days a week and used to teach workshops with Mystery.

Download Tynan's MP3 Rap about Mystery (Click here)

I just started working for a friend who moved his tech company to Austin, and on the side I run my site, www.BetterThanYourBoyfriend.com. I'm actively working on becoming a rapper as well.

UPDATE: Herbal has written his own guide for bringing charisma and energy to your conversations and lifestyle. Read my new interview with Tynan at my new blog.


Herbal Seduction


Describe the moment, when you suddenly realized, "I need to work out this part of my life."

I had a huge crush on this girl for three years. I took a certain amount of pride in not going after other girls - I had the AFC mentality that waiting for her to move back to Austin was a romantic thing to do.

In retrospect, of course, it was pretty creepy.

One day, after having this crush for three years, I decided that I had enough and that I needed to change. A friend had showed me ASF a year prior, but not being ready to give up my crush, I had ignored it. I searched for it again, and read it until the wee hours of the morning. That's when I was hooked.

I then got involved with the Austin Society, and got lucky and got a number my first night out. That success gave me the false confidence to press forward through a lot of rejection.

Have you had any mentors (perhaps well-known pickup artists) within the community/life that have helped you improve your game, and what did they teach you?

Mystery, Style, and Tyler Durden are probably my biggest mentors. Before moving to Project Hollywood I had a nagging worry in the back of my head that I was nothing more than a tenant. What if I moved there and they wanted nothing to do with me? After all, I'd never met Mystery or Style, and had only briefly talked with TD.

However, as soon as I got there any worries I had disappeared. Mystery began teaching me the first week and we were soon going out every night together as wings. Eventually I started teaching workshops with him, which only furthered my knowledge.

I went out with Style and Tyler less, but both of them taught me more than I can thank them for. Tyler helped me understand the importance of learning the skill, and was a huge motivating factor. He was always brutally honest with his feedback, which was very helpful.

Style also gave me a lot of good advice, and his lifestyle which integrated pickup and his real personality and hobbies inspired me.

It's incredibly important to have mentors. Being around someone teaches a lot more than reading what they write.

Can you describe the first time you used a counter-intuitive routine that yielded it's promised results, and how you felt?


The whole game was counterintuitive. It honestly never really occurred to me that I could cultivate any sort of relationship with a stranger. I had never been in a bar or club before the game, and hadn't ever asked a girl for her number. That first number I got just blew away my reality and made me wonder what else I didn't know (the answer: a lot).

Could you describe what you're life was like before you were aware of this, and what options you have with women now?


Life was fine before, but I never felt like I had much control. If a girl liked me, I could usually guide things in the right direction. However, the girls always picked me - I had no choice in the matter.

I don't really go out anymore. I'm not terribly interested in girls who are into the party scene. But now when I see a girl I'm interested in, I can start talking to her and know that she will be attracted to me. In fact, the process is so internalized and subconscious now that I KNOW that any girl I spend fifteen minutes around will like me.

What was your biggest sticking point?

My biggest sticking point was, and still is, going for the first kiss. I am awful at it. I get nervous and then usually end up finally doing it much later than I should have.

Part of the problem is that I'm much more picky than I deserve to be, and I've never "practiced" with less desirable girls. Oh well - I guess there are worse problems to have.

Do you have a favorite routine/step in your model, can you describe it, and what it accomplishes?

"When I first met you, I didn't really like you. Now that I get to know you - you're amazing"

I don't know if I actually ever say those exact words, but I love the sentiment. It's one of Mystery's lines. It's usually also the truth, and I love the reaction it gets.

It says...

"I am picky"
"I like you for more than your beauty"
"I'm not chasing you"
"I'm honest"
And "I like you"

... all in one little phrase.

Have you had the experience yet, where you feel that you've reached a certain degree of mastery? Can you explain the time, and how you got the realization?


I wouldn't consider myself a master. I'm not an AFC either, but when I see people like Mystery or Tyler Durden in the field I realize how much better it's possible to be.

There was one set I did in LA that really sticks out in my mind, though. I was at Lotus with Tyler and a bunch of other people. I chatted up the hottest girl in there, and she was head over heels. I had her feeding me sushi that some other guy bought, begging for my number while these tall modely guys begged for hers, and kissed her goodbye. Later I found out that she was a professional model and even had model trading cards that people bought and sold on ebay.

When I got home she had already left a message on my phone. We never ended up seeing each other because shortly after meeting her I got involved with Katya, but she was still calling me even after I moved back to Austin.

That set made it blatantly obvious that I COULD attract any girl. Before pickup, I would have assumed that she would have no interest in even talking to me. Now I walk around with the confidence that I can get any girl, which is a great feeling to have.

What advice would you give to newbies starting out, in order to greatly accelerate their learning curve?

I could write a book here. Take a workshop, first of all. I was always too proud to take a workshop. I didn't need to spend money to get good. It's true - I didn't, but I would have gotten much better much faster if I had.

Now I'm fortunate enough to be friends with most of the seminar and workshop people, so I can sit in, but it's not the same. If I could go back and pay to have a real workshop, I'd do it. I had no idea how high quality these programs were (specifically Mystery, RSD, Pickup 101, and The Approach).

After you take your workshop, go out religiously. I taught with Mystery for a while, and the people who got good were the people who applied what they learned.

Also - dedicate your life to it. EVERYONE who has gotten very good has done this. It's equally important to take a step back later and see what's stuck with you. But in the beginning - dedicate your life to it.

I MOVED ACROSS THE COUNTRY to get involved. I had a house in Austin that I kept paying the mortgage on while I was in LA. I literally spent all of my savings on the deposit for my chunk of Project Hollywood and had no idea how I was going to pay the rent when I got there.

You're not going to get good starting out two nights a week on your own. It just won't happen. Surround yourself with people who are GREAT (not your fellow AFC friends who are also learning). Go out a lot.

Pickup is both the hardest skill you'll ever learn and the most important. Everyone I know who is any good will say it's the most important thing they've learned, because it applies to EVERYTHING, not just women. I have better relationships with friends, family, and business associates because of it. Do what it takes to get this.

What's your belief on inner game, and how did you improve it?


Inner game is essential, especially as you get later in your game. Don't use it as an excuse, though. I see a lot of guys "working on their inner game" instead of going out. That's crap.

You improve your inner game by being in the field. What would have helped me more? 1000 affirmations saying "hot girls love me" or picking up that model and KNOWING that hot girls love me?

Learning pickup should be the process of amplifying who you are. You're not changing who you are. That's a mistake. You weed out your bad traits and amplify the good ones. Figure out what you like about yourself and what others like about yourself and make THAT be your core.

Habits that you want to kick and that are unattractive need to be minimized or eliminated.

The best way to cultivate a strong inner game is to be out in the field constantly while being hyper aware of everything you do and how it affects others. Every single thing you do or say will get a subtle reaction from everyone in the set. Take note of that.

Do you have a personal favorite field report (your own) that you could relay?

It was the 2004 pickup summit that I organized (see how involved I got?), and everyone was there. More importantly, everyone was trying to show off.

Thundercat and Cristophe were talking to two girls of a three set. The last girl was facing away from the group and had the coldest body language I'd ever seen.

The One came up to me and pointed her out.

"Dude, that girl is really cold. Try talking to her."

It sounded like a challenge to me. PUAs from all over the world were watching, and I had a lot to prove since I had just moved to ProHo.

I walked up and started talking. She ignored me. I just stacked and stacked and stacked, totally unwilling to walk away as a failure. She didn't acknowledge my presence. In any other situation I would have given up long ago, but too many people were watching.

Finally I said something funny and I noticed that the corner of her mouth, the only part I could see, had broken into a slight smile.

"I caught you!" I said, "You've been sitting here being entertained this whole time while I stand here like an idiot? Forget this..."

I started walking away, knowing that she would turn around.

"No... wait!"

I turned and saw that she was smiling. She looked embarrassed. We started talking like normal, and she became attracted to me. Hey, who can blame her?

Thundercat, Cristophe, the three girls, and I walked to Mel's as I had gotten used to doing every night.

During dinner I tried to use a new lying game Style had taught me. Unfortunately I introduced it without really knowing how to follow up.

"Did you know that you can tell if someone's lying just by looking in their eyes?"

"Really, how? Ask me something and tell me if I'm lying or not"

Oops. That's not how this is supposed to go. I got an idea.

"Ok. Do you want to kiss me?"

"No."

"You're lying."

Really, was there anything else I could say? Kissing's always been my big sticking point, so I figured I might as well practice. She was cute.

"No I'm not."

It was a test. I could now tell that she was attracted.

"Yes you are. And now that you've lied to me, I'm NOT going to kiss you."

There was a pause.

"I'm sorry for lying! I didn't know what to say!"

I shrugged apologetically and kept eating. She apologized a couple more times, now very eager to kiss me.

On the way back up to the house I asked her why she was in a bad mood earlier. It was a guy.

Some guy had chatted her up. She didn't like him, but gave him her number in hopes that it would end the conversation.

It did, but then he called her every day until she finally answered. He badgered her into going on a date with her.

Then he badgered her into being his girlfriend.

She had broken up with him earlier that day and was calling her incessantly. That's why her phone was ringing every few minutes. I answered once and told him I was her new boyfriend and to stop calling. He was furious.

We got up to the house and laid down in the pillow pit. I made out with her, but it wasn't really appropriate. There were 20+ PUAs standing in the living room. Maybe that's why I did it.

It didn't seem to be going as well with Thundercat and Cristophe's girls (maybe they weren't interested in the girls, I dunno), so soon the girls left.

My girl and I called each other a few times, but suddenly she stopped calling back. Oh well.

More than six month later I was eating dinner with Mystery when he got a call from TD.

"Dude... tell Herbal to answer his phone. Someone's going to call him."

Sure enough my phone rang. It was that girl. I let it go to voicemail for some reason and her message said :

"Hey Herbal! I'm so sorry I never called you back. I lost your number! I just met your friend Tyler and he used the same tricks on me that you used! We should hang out again! Call me!"

I was dating Katya at the time, so I never called her back. I like that set because I learned a lot. It shows how importance persistence is (both with her boyfriend and me). If I can turn around a set like THAT, I can turn around any set. I probably talked to her back for at least five minutes.
That's a long time when the other person is totally ignoring you.

What is your current sticking point (if any)?

The biggest problem I have these days if finding girls I'm seriously interesting in pursuing.

As it's become easier to attract higher quality girls, my standards have gone up to match. How many beautiful girls do you know who are interesting and fun to be around, but don't drink or smoke?

Luckily I've got some ideas that I'll be putting into action soon for meeting women like that.

What are you goals now within the community, and in life?


I don't really have any goals within the community now, other than to see my friends who are actively involved in it succeed.

In life I focus on constant improvement. I want my relationships to be better, my business to be better, and for my health to be better.

I was hanging out with JLaix in San Francisco last week and he told me that his goal was to gain proficiency in 10 new areas this year (or was it in six months?) I thought that was a great goal and I might borrow it.

Other Seduction Masters Interviews:

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posted by Donovan at 2:15 PM Dating Advice for Men

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